At this point, asking a generation or two to be patient is too big of a RISK.

1000% agree. But I wouldn’t even call it a “risk” because that implies there’s a chance it won’t suck. I think it’s a forgone conclusion where this administration is going and a forgone conclusion that the damage will take a generation or two to undo. And worse, I watched in abject horror as MAGA populism dragged the Democrats far to the right along with them. Fucking hell.

This is not a “fair” fight any more. We don’t get anything we want by being polite.

We didn’t need to be patient. We didn’t effectively use the nonviolent tools are our disposal. They were too boring.

I disagree… change takes time. We’ve made tremendous incremental progress over the past 50-60 years. But it takes time to change laws and even longer to change cultures. Nonviolent protest and similar actions are useful and effective at building communities and cohesion, but less so at effecting change. For effective, long-lasting change we need to educate and advocate, which means engaging in the political process. I don’t know what magical “nonviolent tools” are at our disposal that can turn things around now a time frame that matters to us.

In the last 10 years or so we’ve been steam-rolled over by neoliberal and neoconservative forces bankrolled by the wealthy. The sophistication of this effort and the mechanisms employed are incredibly hard to oppose. You need only witness the recalcitrance of the Dems to shift toward even the most basic progressive goals.

Before the recent election I was advocating hard for Harris not because I don’t consider her essentially a neocon but because the alternative is going to be horrible. Pretty weak, I acknowledge. I also made similar statements as you with regard to not voting for her, even while I shared the feelings of betrayal, simply because it was so clear how much harder any progress was going to be under Trump.

We’re faced with an administration that will set us back decades on every front imaginable. We have 4 years or less to do everything we can to ensure that at a minimum we get to vote them out in 2028 and that the damage is as contained as possible. This isn’t the time for slow incremental change. This is the time to put politicians and the wealthy on notice and make sure they understand the consequences of engaging in even deeper fleecing of the American public.

That doesn’t mean we don’t do the hard, boring work of winning elections and engaging in the political process. To me it just means that isn’t enough right now. It probably won’t be enough for a long time to come. This is going to be a hard fight.

I’m going to mourn the loss of transformation as a path forward.

As am I. But during and since the election I’ve come to the conclusion that we have no choice but to cheer.

I still do believe in incremental change but I no longer feel that we have the time. And I realized that asking a generation or two to be patient enough to let that play out is just too big of an ask.

Biden is also Hitler. He is racist and fascist.

Prove it.

Jesus enslaves

Briefly reviewing your posting history confirms my suspicions.

So in other words, you choose to be flexible with your principles because there’s so much in the world you can’t do much about. All you can do is chip away. You’ve chosen this particular battle for reasons, but not others. Conveniently ignoring the consequences of that choice.

I rest my case.

The problem is they are not inflexible. You compromise ALL the time.

For example, you are perfectly willing to overlook all the other genocide in the world.

Think about it.

I think you illustrate my point.

Grown ups know that life is full of hard choices and that it’s pretty damned rare that you get everything you want in any situation. We also tend to understand that there are many things that we cannot change or can only change a little, sometimes over a long period of time.

Choosing not to choose or “standing on principal” is often counter-productive.

Can I make a suggestion?

Grow Up.

Or I dont wanna vote for someone who committed genocide.

It’s funny and sad to me how little thought seems to be put into comments like this. It’s like you’re taking this position to be cool and fit in. It’s more of a personal branding exercise than a principled position.

There’s a way to turn off the beep entirely on most microwaves.

O.M.G. You have forever changed my life.

https://www.wikihow.com/Silence-a-Microwave

I happen to think Militant Vegans should be eaten or composted but even I will agree that your first sentence is broadly correct. Industrialized agriculture and CAFO operations are to blame for this so you can generally say that consuming animal products is to blame.

Your second point is highly speculative and not based on any factual evidence. The speculated worst case scenario seems to be maybe 20x COVID-19, or 140 million worldwide.

As a vegan, I should think you’d celebrate even that high rate of attrition. It would mean, overall, far fewer delicious animals being consumed.