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Cake day: June 29th, 2023

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  • They want knowledge presented efficiently, yes, and presenting knowledge efficiently means speaking to people in language that doesn’t get in the way of the ideas to those who are new to them. Academic language is a skill. That skill shouldn’t be presented as a barrier to learning about how the working class deserves more. Hell you can recommend people read theory that does speak to them in more common language. The Black Panthers were really good at speaking to people where they were. David Graeber also was excellent at it.

    But why do people read any given text? Because they’ve been given a reason to want to. A podcaster got me started on my recent Graeber binge, and I excited by and enjoying the books convinced some friends to add one to their lists, as well as me talking about what I liked about and found fascinating in these books here on lemmy. Now I’m in the middle of some fiction unrelated to all of it because those friends recommended it to me.

    “Go read theory” is brushing people off and cannot be expected to produce the result of them actually reading anything. “Hey, I’m not really doing my position justice in this discussion, if you’d like a much better argument read X by Y, it’s where I got a lot of these ideas, I found it really illuminating” is a much more effective means of getting someone to read.

    There are plenty of challenging books to read. I don’t know many people who read books because they know they’ll be challenging, especially as throughout this discussion challenging has both meant “ideas that challenge one’s views and reshape them” and “ideas presented in a way that is challenging”.

    The former is generally positive. Many people can enjoy such things whether it’s in a book (ideal as it can go into a level of depth other media struggle with, but also is the least easy to get people on board with because of the time investment), a discussion with someone they’re comfortable listening to, a zine, a podcast, or whatever else. Hell LeGuinn was great at using fiction for it.

    The latter meaning of challenging however has upsides and downsides. It may add precision and complexity at the cost of legibility. When legibility is lost many walk away. It takes more effort to get to the dang ideas in the first place. This is especially the case with academic language, which many aren’t familiar and comfortable with.

    Presenting old ideas in a newer and easier to access way is good. It’s a role that on the left spent far too long as the domain of zines and not much else.

    When people feel they’re supposed to read a book because it’s important they put it off indefinitely. Reading it can feel like homework. If you want people to understand theory you need to help get everything but the ideas out of the way of the ideas and get them interested in knowing more. When they want more then you can spring a book with a painfully 19th century academic title on them, then they may actually read it.


  • Do you want to feel superior or do you want to increase access to your ideas? Most people won’t read a dense tome or even a particularly difficult book of something they’re mildly interested in. It goes even more for something other people tell them to read in ways very reminiscent of people saying to read the bible.

    Meet people where they are, and as you convince them that there’s some merit to your ideas you can challenge them with challenging ideas. Some of those people will move on to difficult books, others however won’t because they prefer other types of challenges. In order to get what we want we need a lot more people on our side and that means addressing how bad we are at spreading our ideas to the general masses.

    If communism means reading books that are long, difficult, and boring to ordinary people, most people don’t want it. They don’t read their bibles when they’re Christian and they won’t read their Marx if they’re communists.


  • You must read the originator to practice something. You aren’t a real capitalist if you haven’t read Adam Smith and you aren’t a real sadist if you haven’t read the 120 days of Sodom. /s

    Fr though, theory is great and more people should read it, but also we must burn our bookshelves to be free as it were. Theory is just ideas, both vital to our ability to imagine and build a better world, but ultimately something that should be willing to build on, challenge, and eventually make even the most important thinkers academic.

    So yeah read Marx, Proudhon, Kropotkin, Stirner, Goldman, Lenin, Mao, Huey Newton, Angela Davis, Graeber… but not like how a Christian would read the Bible. Read them as one reads philosophers (and a biologist and anthropologist who also did philosophy). Read them critically and see what they got right, ask what they might have gotten wrong and why. Ask what you can learn from their ideas and the effects of different people’s approaches to building on their ideas. When we treat them as secular prophets we do a disservice to them, ourselves, and those who will come after us.

    Also like, do more than just read them. You actually have to try to meet people where they are. Talk about the ideas in ways that people are receptive to then eventually drop in where you got them. Convince ordinary people about this stuff as you organize to make more of it happen. Not through smugness but by sympathizing with their actual problems and building a dialog. Practice what you preach, both because it enhances credibility and is the right thing to do, but also because what we on the left preach is difficult to do and we need the practice.






  • The Dispossessed hit me like a truck, but I wouldn’t call it theory. It’s political fiction that’s subtle about it by using sci fi, but I think calling it anything but a novel/fiction does a disservice to such literature. It does that which all message based fiction aspires to: lies to you in a way that makes you think about the world and see everything differently. I love all of LeGuinn’s books that I’ve read, though I felt Omelas was overrated. I’ll also plug Graeber for easily accessible theory written in modern language for modern life. Bullshit jobs hit hard.

    And yeah, theory matters, but only if you do praxis. Do the hungry care more about who you feed them, or that you feed them? Do your coworkers dream of a dictatorship of the proletariat or do they just want their voice heard in the workplace? If all you do is read theory, you’re a book club. The least you could do is mail some dictionaries and whatever other books to prisoners while you discuss the theory. Offer them some zines while you’re at it. What is in your heart and your mind are irrelevant until your actions reveal them.



  • It’s both. Popular fronts are a thing, and Spanish Republican style coalitions are incredibly powerful tools. Political pluralism within leftist movements is healthy when we let it be healthy. The CIA, FBI, and various governments and reactionary groups have engaged in psyops against this for decades.

    But these divisions are real and they come from real ideological differences and hurt. The CIA didn’t force the red army to fire on the black armies, it didn’t force the blunder of ideology at Kronstadt, it didn’t force the betrayal in Spain. And it also didn’t force anarchists to have issues controlling their people or implementing their goals. It didn’t force the syndicalists to fuck up in South America and Berlin. And it didn’t force the USSR and CCP to nearly go to war with each other.

    What they did do however is project Gladius, COINTELPRO, operation condor, and various other anti left programs. They made damn sure Fred Hampton died and they made sure the Black Panthers couldn’t trust each other enough to be effective. They also made sure the inner cities were filled with crack to destroy black anti capitalist organizing.

    And here’s where you get the mix. Anarchists already don’t trust MLs, because of the aforementioned betrayals and disorganization, then you get government campaigns working to ensure that trust remains broken and that the culture becomes one in which cooperation is anathema. And the trots are kept distrustful of the MLs and the anarchists. MLs are encouraged to keep thinking of themselves as the only real socialists except MLMs. It’s similar to the Russian campaigns between democrats and republicans, both already didn’t like each other and the goal is to keep picking at the wounds and encouraging off putting behaviors.


  • captainlezbian@lemmy.worldtoLefty Memes@lemmy.dbzer0.comScary words
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    1 year ago

    Wait a minute, you think the liberals ruined the February Revolution, buddy, the socialist leadership wasn’t even there for it. What next? Calling the makhnovists libs?

    I’m a socialist in favor of left unity, but you need to touch grass, make friends with people who disagree with you, then go back and try to figure out who betrayed Marxist ideals in November of 1917.





  • You can’t radicalize a liberal during the worst fucking time to radicalize a liberal. Libs have their hearts in the right place but believe in the system, fascists understand the system is fucked and take the worst possible position in response. Fascists can be converted reasonably quickly but are much easier to convert back. Liberals need you to convince them, and it’ll be slow, and they’ll resist and they’ll probably stay where you leave them.

    I don’t want the people more committed to radicalism nearly as much as I want the people more committed to ethics.




  • Well because I didn’t want to say bombing them on the internet. Or burning buildings associated with ecological destruction. And i forgot about other things like spiking trees (the spikes break chainsaws in a way that osha is not happy about)

    Eco terrorists didn’t really care about you using proper pollution control when drilling for oil compared to the potential of forcing you to stop drilling for oil.