Source? If that’s the case then yeah, that’s a mistake on my ideological ancestors’ part.

Goddamn right, we want everything, not just the banks

🍴😁🏴

Nah I think this user is saying that both have their place. And really, I don’t think that’s controversial. E.g., we do need to seize the banks, which will probably be violent, but we also need to do mutual aid, which need not be violent.

Not a MAGA chud and neither is OP. The fault lies with the Empire, , and all their minions, including the “”“nice”“” ones pretending to be “socialists” like AOCIA, for attacking Iran.

I hate that it’s going back down 👎

Living in

Anarchists taking strays 😆 we hate rainbow capitalism lol 😆

I mean I’m an anarchist and I got to my position by reading 🤷

I agree with you, I just want to make it clear that it’s not the OP of the thread being an asshole, because the troll is trying to make zir look bad.

Just so you know: the person you’re responding to is impersonating OP.

I like how you’re not even doing like “vote for a socialist party” electoralism, but you’re just fully capitulating to the blue monsters in advance 😆

But the moral prohibition on siding with any administration that endorses genocide will force a different flavor of the exact same logic that centrist liberalism has depended on for so long: hold your nose and align with the least worst thing. Only the least worst thing will no longer be the mild, ethics-agnostic emptiness of modern Western liberalism, nor will it be the multitude of barbaric authoritarians and their secret prisons. It will be communal solidarity, or else nothing, a walking away from all of this. Countless otherwise pragmatic people who would in any other circumstance choose liberalism by default will instead decide none of this is worth the damage to one’s soul. They will instead support no one, vote for no one, wash their hands of any ordering of the world that results in choices no better than this. And the obvious centrist refrain—But do you want the deranged right wing to win?—should, after even a moment of self-reflection, yield to a far more important question: How empty does your message have to be for a deranged right wing to even have a chance of winning? Of all the epitaphs that may one day be written on the gravestone of Western liberalism, the most damning is this: Faced off against a nihilistic, endlessly cruel manifestation of conservatism, and somehow managed to make it close.

— Omar El-Akkad, One Day Everyone Will Have Always Been Against This, correction mine.

Tbf I was in grade school in 2003 so it’s a bit much to expect me to have been on the “abolish the DHS” train for that long 😆

But then it wouldn’t be . It would be something else. And would have to go the way of the dinosaur for that to happen.

We can’t really agree to disagree on wishful thinking vs centuries of materialist analysis that has been historically proven time and time again, sorry.

No we actually can agree to disagree, because maybe I have reached my conclusions through a materialist but distinct analysis. Reasonable minds can differ on most things. Give it a shot!

bonds and stocks which would result in instant wipe out of capital on paper

Good. It wasn’t real anyways, so we shouldn’t be playing along like it is.

collapse of existing factory supply chains

Does collapse of necessarily mean collapse of the supply chains? I’m skeptical that workers will stop working in absence of the boot; if anything, workers will be more productive.

As long as “leadership” doesn’t mean a vanguard, then I really don’t have any problems with the second paragraph, and frankly it is a more precise version of what I want to see.

If there’s actual class consciousness in a country, collapse isn’t necessary at all.

The problem is that the military and cops are not proletarians and never will align with our interests. So even if the proletariat fully achieved class consciousness, we would have to fight the military and the cops at a bare minimum. I.e., the government and their forces would need to collapse.

If there isn’t, collapse wouldn’t bring anything other than suffering and shift back towards status quo.

It would take and its evils off the world stage, saving millions of lives, albeit not mine. Obviously I want collapse with class consciousness, but I’m not gonna pretend like it wouldn’t be beneficial for everyone else if disappeared overnight, because it would be.

Yeah but those few dozen people are more important than everyone else /s

I’m with you on the first paragraph, hence why downfall of the US is necessary but insufficient for communism.

In fact, a collapse of such a large hegemony would probably bolster global capital given how it’d take out a ton of accumulated capital

Yeah if got nuked into the stone age or otherwise completely obliterated all at once, but if it fell to consistent communists or socialists, the accumulated capital would be expropriated and given back to the people, right?

solving overproduction (main capitalist contradiction)

I don’t think that is the only country causing overproduction.

This would legitimize rule of capital further since the times are good.

Which is why our comrades outside of need to prepare for our downfall and learn the lessons of our genocidal history, namely to never settle for what the capitalists offer you.

But we can honestly agree to disagree on the details of the future. My main goal is to demonstrate that there is an anti- position that isn’t just “Middle class 14 year old leftists and self-hating third worldists try not to jerk off at the thought of proles in the west dying”. Like is the flag of the people who want to put me and my family and all my friends and all my comrades in camps. Of course I’m rooting for its downfall!

Yup, once the only bad country in existence (US) is out of the picture, every other country that currently exist, who definitely don’t brutalize proles and certainly don’t have any interest in imperialism will turn communist and end centuries of suffering for all…

I think you’re yelling at someone else? Maybe OP? I’m not pro-{any country}, but I am an anarchist and is absolutely my biggest op right now.

Collapses too are notoriously peaceful and civil and certainly don’t result in millions of deaths until another bourgeois hitler takes power

The status quo is more dangerous than collapse, full stop. Whatever millions of deaths the collapse of will cause in the short term, capitalism as it currently exists will cause orders of magnitude more in the longer term (eventually all of us!) and more than collapse even in the short term, but just in ways that are designed to be hard to notice.

Collapse of ≠ deaths of proles in

If anything, the death of the project will save millions of proletarian lives, including proles living within .